Questions to master,regarding potential future mastering

[przechuy]

I am impressed by Your job ,and today i have some free time and wanted to register here and ask about some advices that surely can affect mastering in future.

I like to experiment and read diffrent approaches to music production,basically i have in mind house/dance music that has to be punchy,fat sounding etc.

I produce using Reaper DAW which i love (switched from cubase) and i recommend to anyone to try it.

And the first thing i do when i start production is picking a kick from my collection and a sample bass sound,to set (now i will write about my aim of my post) compressors that i put on master bus.

I start producing with compressors on master bus and i "mix into them" so in my oppinion it starts not bad from beggining and overall final results are not bad (as for "bedroom producer that never had his tracks mastered by a pro like You)


At the moment my master bus looks like as follows:

Sonalksis sv-315mk2 2.2.1 ratio, -3.0db threshold ,attack 0.5 ms,auto release.
Oxford Dynamics 2.000 ratio ,-.3,6 db threshold,release 0.320s
C1 comp from waves ratio 1.37:1 ,-4db threshold,attack 0.01,release 299
PSP Vintage warmer II with really gentle settings to not mess everything totally.



Now i would like to ask what do You think about it.I think it sounds good,and will explain my point of view.By using few instances of compressors,everytime of diffrent brand ,gives a nice pumping effect,as every compressor seems to affect mix in his own way that makes him special.And few instances of it give nice results,in my opinion.
And PSP in the end is to give it a bit of warmth and final "glue".I know oxford dynamics has "warmth" options,but somehow i did not liked what this function of him was making with mix.


Now,i expect either to be bashed because i do it totally wrong,or to get some nice feedback,tips by master.

I learn everything on my own from books,internet,forums,and i also experiment as i said so i know sometimes the stuff i do might look retarded.


I also would love to know what pro engineer like You thinks about it.I heard opinions that vintage warmer may fuck up (sorry for word) mix so much that even best engineers later strugle with mastering of such material.So i use it reaaally gently.

Would it make any problem for a pro like you to master such track ?AFter those "bedroom tweaks" by me?.
I do EQ if needed single tracks before mixdown so they do not sound messy .






and in the end,someone will ask,i know,how can i use such "pro" plugins being bedroom producer.I answer at this point to prevent it-my friend works in london in a agency that produces advertising campaigns,videos,www campaigns etc and it gave me possibility to get those plugins at total bargain prices,quite unimaginable prices.So i took advantage of it.

[Medway]

Hi,

Thanks for joining. This is a good question and I'm glad you brought it up as it's something I have to deal with very frequently.

Chaining the compressors as you have can work really well and it's something I do quite often myself. It depends on the type of track but for instance with a remix I am producing today I've got probably about 3-4 compressors and a couple of limiters on the master. Most of them are only doing a few db of compression but this type of song calls for a very pumping sound. In many cases I am only using one compressor and limiter on the buss, especially when mastering.

The settings you have seem ok, maybe I would lower the release times to something faster but it also depends on the way the compressor reacts and some need longer or shorter times per compressor to do the same job. You are using low ratios which is good for this type of multi compressing technique so I'd say that is done correctly.

As far as vintage warmer I do use it now and then although many times I end up taking it off at the end. I use it to shave off the transients and 'smear' a mix a little to take the edge of it. But when listening back I don't always like the way VW handles this. One of the best uses I've got from it is to process snare drums to make them fat and less spiky. But for the master I do recommend very light settings or make use of the mix knob. I am a fan of the Warmth knob on Sonnox but also you have to be careful as it is adding high end harmonics and can make a mix to brittle if overused. But it can get an extra db or so out of a mix through saturation and takes some work from the limiters.


The last question is important as well. Sometimes I receive a master which contained many stereo buss processors. When taking these off the mix then falls apart and sounds very unbalanced. This is the danger of using too much on the master which if the mastering engineer needs removed leaves you in a bad situation. The processed mix will be too compressed/eq'd but the unprocessed version will be too raw.

Sometimes in this situation I will ask for the settings used so I can recreate them here but tweak them to something more suitable. In many cases the song might actually need these types of settings to 'work' as is the case with some dance music but I can fine tune the effect so the master is not sounding harsh or too flattened which is sometimes the case with the artists attempt at the 'pumped' sound.

Hope these have answered your questions, let me know if you have any more.

Jesse

[Medway]

And btw I have been interested in Reaper but don't have the time to look into a new DAW, glad it is working out well for you though.

[przechuy]

Originally Posted by Medway

And btw I have been interested in Reaper but don't have the time to look into a new DAW, glad it is working out well for you though.

You cant even imagine how encouraging it is.(Yor response on my question regarding compressors etc)

The only thing i knew was how compressors works ,rules of it etc,and then i started to tweak it only on my ear Then all Your feedback is extremely encouraging for me as it says to me that i might be not that much retarded



Thats really great,also i am amazed that You spent so much time to write such a long and great reply in this topic.


And about Reaper.I can give You some more feedback here.

I can run on it much more VST instruments then normally in any other daw,and it is greatly functional and intuitive in use.I heard some voices of people claiming that working with midi is bit annoying in reaper,but i never had a single problem with it .There are some tests ,comparisons between reaper and rest liek cubase,and actually repaer in all areas is usually at least as good as rest,and sometimes better (like vst efficiency)
Also it is updated sometimes on a weekly basis ,i heard creators update it constantly because of feedback they get from users.And most important,it is really cheap -suits me perfectly,as i am 22yo student without technical/music education and all i know up to this day is only from trial and error/reading etc .


one more time,thank you for great feedback.And as Your prices and acchievements are great i think i will send You a track to master when i finish production that will fully satisfy me.Because as i said,my tracks never were mastered or checked by pro engineer.And i think time for this major step forward is closer and closer.



Also ,i have just checked one of presets to oxford dynamics that You provided,SSL master ,and i put it into master bus alone,and also sounded good,probably i will mess around it and try to tweak for my need maybe

[Medway]

Przechuy,

Hi glad to have helped a little, I know compression is a very tricky thing to get right so just keep experimenting.

Thanks for the info on Reaper, one day I will give it a second look perhaps for mastering purposes.

Regards,

Jesse

[Edel]

Hey Przechuy, welcome
You def came to the right place..
Jesse is one of the few that actually takes the time out to fill us in on any tech/music matters some have so he's been a big help (for me at least) if not everyone here.

PS: It would be nice to know your London friend, i could do with some discount on some plugs myself

[przechuy]

I also love this forum .Maybe there are not too much people posting here yet but knowledge of mr Medway is priceless.

And actually when i wrote on other forum about using for example 3 compressors on master bus,and this forum was told to be high tech forum of specialists wannabee, they laughed at me and said that i know shit ...

It is so retarded and immature to ahve conversations in such style on the internet,and by posting and asking here i know that reply will be highest quality. Thats surely a mine of knowledge

[Medway]

Przechuy,

Yes I made this forum to give people a place to discuss things without having to go through what you did. I got tired of seeing it all the time. I know this forum isn't as busy but I think that's fine and better as it keeps it more friendly, once you get to the bigger forums then you can have more problems.

Jesse